I'm Leon Cunningham from the SPS Inclusion Program.
I'm here talking to Mandy Barnao from Transport for New South Wales about disability,
employment and workplace adjustments.
So Mandy,
I think we might start with your own personal journey.
Could you please talk to the people about what your disability is and what adjustments have been made in the workplace for you.
My disability is invisible disability.
I have post traumatic stress disorder.
I've also lived with severe depression from a life of a lot of trauma.
Some of the adjustments that have been made for me working at Transport for New South Wales have been to allow me to make my day up as it suits me best.
So at the moment,
you know,
I struggle to sleep.
Um I don't get a good night's rest.
So I start later then,
then other people.
So I might start at 10,
10 30.
Um I arrange my day to make sure that I have a chance to have a little bit of a rest and a little bit of a de stress.
Um and then I will work up until maybe At nine o'clock at night.
So I have a lot of breaks through the day.
Um,
and I find that my managers,
the people that I work with are able to,
to know that I'll get the job done.
I'll just have to do it a little bit of a different way than they might have previously expected.
So no longer sort of 9-5,
more like a 10-930 with a few breaks in between.
We spoke earlier about the importance of people with disability,
being honest to their managers about what they are going through and what they can and can't do.
How did that work for you?
I really didn't have much of a choice in terms of someone who wasn't comfortable admitting what,
what I had and what I was living with.
Um it was impacting some of the way I was working.
I wasn't able to get up and I wasn't able to sleep well.
So I was always looking really tired and I was very anxious and it was just this leap of faith that I took with a previous CD and executive director that I worked with and said this is what I'm going through in my personal life.
This is what I'm struggling with.
Can we have a talk about just adjusting a few things to make it easier for me to be able to deliver what I had to deliver.
And she was very supportive.
Amazingly.
So in some parts of what I was dealing with at the time.
Um,
I lost my son to mental health,
um,
in 2017.
And,
you know,
that really put me back a long way with,
with my post traumatic stress disorder.
It really,
um,
impacted the way I could work.
Um,
having someone that I trusted to talk to having that honest conversation of.
Yes,
I can do my job.
I might not be able to come in every day.
I might have to work off site and this is before COVID.
Um,
and I might change my hours a little bit and have a little bit of a break,
but I can do everything I need to do and I can do it well and,
and I was trusted to do that as well.
So I was in a very good position and in return,
I've been able to sort of be able to look outside the box when it comes to other people that need adjustments or talking with other managers who may be uncomfortable that someone maybe not working to the best of their ability.
And they might need to have some kind of adjustment in what they do.
And it can be as little as,
you know,
having shorter meetings because someone can't sit in one area without being in pain and they have to get up and walk out or where they have to be facing a particular position in a meeting,
or they might have to have a meeting on a level that has automatic doors because they use a wheelchair to get around.
So you talked about a few adjustments that you're making for your team members.
I think there's a bit of a myth out there around workplace adjustments,
but they might be too hard or they might be too expensive or they might take up too much time or effort.
But it appears from what you're saying that there's some very,
very simple things that people can do on a day to day basis that might not even involve any expense.
I think that's the huge myth that goes around with people with disability,
that it's going to cause some kind of excessive work or they're going to um not be as efficient or it's going to be more expensive or it's going to have some kind of negative impact.
Uh In my experience,
it's mainly a positive impact.
Um You're getting people employed in an area that especially with government.
We need to have a representative of the community which we serve.
One in five people have a disability if we're especially at transport,
if we haven't got those voices in the room,
when we're making decisions,
how are we going to cater for the services and things that the people need in the community when we're providing them transport or transport services?
If you are just giving advice,
first advice to manage to any manager,
what would it be?
What would be the one take out that you want them to take from this podcast,
I think not have any preconceived ideas about what disability means.
Not have an idea of someone's got limitations,
but see them as an individual,
everyone's got a limitation.
It doesn't matter if they've got a disability or not,
there's people that have limitations in all kinds of aspects of their life.
So if you're thinking about disability as,
as being limited,
um you're wrong because it only bumps its head up when we put a block in someone's path.
So the idea is to open your eyes to the possibility,
get yourself some education around what that means for you as a,
as a manager,
as a leader,
to have people with a diverse background and have people with disability in your team.
It's life changing for someone and to be able to do that is personally fulfilling,
but it's also going to benefit you as well.
So don't just look at it as benefiting someone else,
it benefits you in the long run as well and you'll be better for it as a leader.
So,
Mandy,
what are some of the things that managers should consider making adjustments for when advertising and recruiting for a position?
I think that's the key is that that's your first opportunity to interact with someone with a disability.
And you know,
you really need to have a look at what you really require for that role.
Do you require someone with a driver's license or can you get around that?
Um when someone discloses that they've got a disability and I know transport for New South Wales have a,
a selection that you can make in your application.
And if you do see that it's best to reach out and,
and ask the person,
what do you require to make this interview or make this um selection easier on you or is there anything additional that you might require and you need to look at making it um equitable,
not,
it's not going to be what we think of is fair,
which is completely wrong.
We just have to make sure that everyone's on the same path and on the same footing.
So if it's,
if someone has anxiety and they get confused or they get,
I don't know,
impacted by an interview situation,
providing them with the questions beforehand isn't a deal breaker.
Um It's,
it's something that may really benefit them uh and,
and allow them to showcase themselves on an equal footing as someone else.
And the first thing is to talk to someone,
talk to them,
ask what they need to make this session go well,
um you know,
you're trying to get the best person for the job.
You're not,
you're not making pitting them against each other,
you want the best person for the job.
And so set an environment that you're going to be able to get the best out of that person and really able to see,
you don't want to trick them up.
That's not what the point is,
the point is to find someone and see what their skills are.
And if they're comfortable they're going to be able to relay those skills and what they can bring to the organization.
If they're not comfortable,
you're not going to get that.
You're not going to see what their true value is.
I've been speaking to Mandy Bar nao from Transport for New South Wales about disability,
employment and workplace adjustments.
Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure.
Okay.
So we've heard when workplace adjustments go well,
but if you feel like you're not getting the adjustments that you need,
what are your options?
I have Sally Jews from anti discrimination,
New South Wales here to discuss what some of your options are.
So,
I'm a conciliation officer at anti discrimination,
New South Wales.
So I investigate complaints of discrimination and help parties try and resolve complaints.
So we don't take sides,
but we sit down with both parties often together and help them discuss the complaint and resolve it.
So if you've requested an adjustment in the workplace because you have a disability and your employer is not responsive to that request.
It may be that you have a complaint of disability discrimination under the Anti Discrimination Act.
If you want to talk to someone about that,
you can call our enquiries line on 1 806 7812 and the next step after advice,
if someone does want to make a complaint,
then on our website,
which is anti discrimination dot nsw dot gov dot au,
you have the ability to lodge a complaint with us.
I'd like to thank Mandy and Sally for their time on the podcast today.
If this podcast has raised personal concerns,
you may wish to contact beyond Blue on 1 300 double 24636 or lifeline on 131114.